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Gautam Buddha – Blowing out the candle

When I close my eyes, I feel such an enormous presence,
such a vast isness, such a beatitude.
But it is a fullness, not an emptiness.
Could you please say something
about the difference between this fullness,
and the emptiness or nothingness which You are speaking of?

The fullness that you are experiencing and the nothingness that I have been speaking about are just two names for the same thing seen from two different perspectives.
If you look at it from the world of miseries, anxieties, darkness and death, it is nothingness – because all those things are absent. You whole so-called world and its experiences are no more in it.
But if you look at what is left, or at what is revealed because of the absence of misery and darkness, then you are full of blissfulness, full of light, of enormous presence and beatitude, a great benediction. It is fullness.
It is empty of the world and full of God, it is empty of all your falsities and full of your essential reality.
These two words are not contradictory; they are indicating the same experience from two different perspectives.
It is significant to understand that there is only one person, Gautam Buddha, who has used nothingness, emptiness for the ultimate experience. All other mystics of the world have used fullness, wholeness, as the expression, the indication of the ultimate experience.

Why did Gautam Buddha have to choose a negative term?

It is significant to understand – for your own spiritual growth, not for any philosophical reasons. I do not speak for philosophical reasons. I speak only when I see there is some existential relevance.

The idea of fullness, the idea of God, the idea of perfection, the idea of the absolute, the ultimate – all are positive terms. And Gautam Buddha was amazed to see the cunningness of the human mind.

The innocent mystics have simply used the positive words because that was their experience. Why bother about the misery which is no more? Why not say something about that which is now? The innocent mystics have spoken out of their isness. But throughout the centuries the cunning minds of people around the world have taken advantage of it.

To the cunning mind, the idea of fullness and the positive terms indicating it became an ego trip: “I have to become God. I have to attain the absolute, the brahma; I have to achieve the ultimate liberation.” The I became the center of all our assertions.

And the trouble is that you cannot make the ultimate experience a goal for the ego.

Ego is the barrier; it cannot become the bridge.

So, all the positive terms have been misused. Rather than destroying the ego, they have become decorations for the ego. God has become a goal; you have to achieve the goal. You become greater than God.

Remember, you cannot be greater than the goal. The achiever cannot be greater than the achieved. It’s a very simple fact to understand.

And all the religions have fallen because of this simple innocence of the mystics.

Gautam Buddha was the most cultured and the most educated, the most sophisticated person ever to become a mystic. There is no comparison in the whole of history. He could see where the innocent mystics had unknowingly given chances for cunning minds to take advantage. He decided not to use any positive terms for the ultimate goal, to destroy your ego and any possibility of your ego taking any advantage.

He called the ultimate, nothingness, emptiness, shunyata, zero. Now, how can the ego make zero the goal? God can be made the goal, but not zero.

Who wants to become zero? – that is the fear. Everybody is avoiding all possibilities of becoming zero, and Buddha made it an expression for the ultimate.

His word is nirvana.He chose a tremendously beautiful word, but he shocked all the thinkers and philosophers by choosing the word ‘nirvana’ as the most significant expression for the ultimate experience.

Nirvana means blowing out the candle.

The other mystics have said that you are filled with enormous light, as if thousands of suns together have suddenly risen inside you, as if the whole sky full of stars has descended within your heart.

These ideas appeal to the ego.

The ego would like to have all the stars, if not inside the chest then at least hanging on the coat outside the chest. ”Enormous light”… the ego is very willing.

To cut the very roots, Buddha says the experience is as if you were to blow out a candle. There was a small flame on the candle giving a small light – even that is gone, and you are surrounded with absolute darkness, abysmal darkness.

People used to come to ask him, “If you go on teaching such things, nobody is going to follow you. Who wants darkness, enormous darkness? You are crazy. You say that the ultimate experience is ultimate death. People want eternal life, and you are talking about ultimate death.”

But he was a very consistent man, and you can see that for forty-two years he hammered on the genius of the East without ever compromising with the ego. He also knows that what he is calling darkness is too much light; that’s why it looks like darkness. If one thousand suns rise in you, what do you think? – that you will feel enormous light?  You will feel immense darkness, it will be too dazzling. Just look at one sun for a few seconds – and you will feel your eyes are going blind. If one thousand suns are within you, inside the mind, the experience will be of darkness, not of light.

It will take a long time for you to get accustomed, for your eyes to become strong enough to see – slowly slowly – darkness turning into light, death turning into life, emptiness turning into fullness.

But he never talked about those things. He never said that darkness would ever turn into light.

And he never said that death would become a resurrection at some later point, because he knows how cunning your ego is. If that is said, the ego will say, “Then there is no problem. Our aim remains the same; it is just that we will have to pass through a little dark night of the soul. But finally, we will have enormous light, thousands of suns.”

Gautam Buddha had to deny that God existed – not that he was against God, a man like Gautam Buddha cannot be against God. And if Gautam Buddha is against God, then it is of no use for anybody to be in favour of God. His decision is decisive for the whole of humanity, he represents our very soul. But he was not against God. He was against your ego, and he was constantly careful not to give your ego any support to remain. If God can become a support, then there is no God.

One thing becomes very clear: although he used, for the first time, all negative terms, yet the man must have had tremendous charismatic qualities. He influenced millions of people.

His philosophy is such that anyone listening to him would freak out. What is the point of all the meditations and all the austerities, renouncing the world, eating one time a day … and ultimately you achieve nothingness, you become zero! We are already better – we may be miserable zeroes, but we are at least.

Certainly, when you are completely a zero there cannot be any misery; zeroes are not known to be miserable – but what is the gain?

But he convinced people – not through his philosophy, but through his individuality, through his presence. He gave people the experience itself, so that they could understand: it is emptiness as far as the world is concerned; it is emptiness for the ego. And it is fullness for the being.

There are many reasons for the disappearance of Buddha’s thoughts from India, but this is one of the most significant. All other Indian mystics, philosophers, and seers have used positive terms.

And for centuries before Buddha, the whole of India was accustomed to thinking only in the positive; the negative was something unheard of. Under the influence of Gautam Buddha they followed him, but when he died his following started disappearing – because the following was not intellectually convinced; it was convinced because of his presence.

Because of the eyes of Gautam Buddha they could see:”This man – if he is living in nothingness then there is no fear, we would love to be nothing. If this is where zeroness leads, if by being nothing such lotuses bloom in the eyes and such grace flows, then we are ready to go with this man. The man has a magic.”

But his philosophy alone will not convince you, because it has no appeal for the ego.

And Buddhism survived in China, in Ceylon, in Burma, in Japan, in Korea, in Indochina, in Indonesia – in the whole of Asia except India – because the Buddhists who reached there dropped negative terms. They started speaking in positive terms. Then the ultimate, the absolute, the perfect – the old terms returned. This was the compromise.

So as far as I am concerned, Buddhism died with Gautam Buddha.

Whatever exists now as Buddhism has nothing to do with Buddha because it has dropped his basic contribution, and that was his negative approach.

I am aware of both traditions. I am certainly in a better position than Gautam Buddha was. Gautam Buddha was aware of only one thing – that the ego can use the positive. And it is his great contribution, his courageous contribution, that he dropped the positive and insisted on the negative, emphasized the negative – knowing perfectly well that people were not going to follow this because it had no appeal for the ego.

To me, now both traditions are available. I know what happened to the positive – the ego exploited it. I know what happened to the negative. After the death of Gautam Buddha, the disciples had to compromise, compromise with the same thing which Gautam Buddha was revolting against.

So I am trying to explain to you both approaches together – emptiness as far as the world is concerned and fullness, wholeness as far as the inner experience is concerned. And this is a total approach, it takes note of both: that which has to be left behind, and that which is to be gained.

I call my approach the only holy approach.

All other approaches up to now have been half-half. Mahavira, Shankara, Moses, Mohammed, all used the positive. Gautam Buddha used the negative. I use both, and I don’t see any contradiction.

If you understand me clearly, then you can enjoy the beauty of both viewpoints, and you need not be exploited by your ego or be afraid of death and darkness and nothingness.
They are not two things. It is almost as if I were to put a glass of water in front of you, half full and half empty, and ask you whether the glass is empty or full. Either answer would be wrong, because the glass is both half full and half empty. From one side it is empty; from another side it is full.

Half of your life is part of the mundane world, the other half is part of the sacred. And it is unfortunate, but there is no other way –  we have to use the same language for both the mundane and the sacred.

So one has to be very alert. To choose the mundane will be missing. If you think of the mundane, you will find the sacred life empty. If you think of the sacred, you will find it overflowingly full.

Osho –  Beyond Enlightenment

Emperor Constantine…

Android Jones

I say unto you that Christianity is one of the most untruthful religions in the world.

Christianity is a fiction.

It is a disease, a sickness, a pathology, a poison.

It has not been helpful to humanity in finding the truth in any sense.

It has been trying to propagate lies so continuously that they have almost become truth.

Jesus had never even heard the name Christianity. It has been imposed on him, he was not the founder of Christianity.

His life was written eighty years after his death, by people who had not directly known him.

Now even Christian scholars have come to the conclusion that the Christian gospels were not written by the apostles but were written by somebody else, because the mountains described are not in the same place where they are described in the gospels. The rivers described are not in the same place where they are described in the gospels.

Everything was written by people who had not known Jesus Christ, and neither had they lived with Jesus Christ.

Who exactly was the founder of Christianity?

One thing is certain, Jesus was not. He never thought about founding a religion, he was simply telling the Jews, “I am your last prophet.”

He died on the cross as a Jew.

You can find Buddhism in the teachings of Gautam Buddha; he was the founder. You can find in the teachings of Mahavira that he was the founder of Jainism. You can find in the teachings of Lao Tzu that he was the founder of Taoism. But it is a very strange thing about Christianity: Jesus had no idea at all, was not interested in creating a new religion.

Then who founded Christianity?

The man who founded it – you will not believe it – was the Emperor Constantine. The church knows it, but does not allow the public to know it.

The Baptism of Constantine

Emperor Constantine of Rome, who headed the Council of Nicea, died as a Christian, but he was baptized only on his deathbed. His whole life he was the high priest of the Sun God religion, which was why he changed the sabbath from Saturday, which was Jesus’ sabbath day, to Sunday. Jews still have their sabbath on Saturday, and Jesus also had lived his whole life believing in the sabbath on Saturday. How did it become Sunday?

It was Constantine, who was a worshipper of the Sun God. Sunday represents the sun; the followers of the sun have always believed that Sunday is a holy day.

It was Constantine who was actually the founder of Christianity. He was the decisive factor in the Council of Nicea. It was under his pressure – because he was the emperor of Rome – that the priests voted for the divine personality of Jesus. He made Jesus a divine person. It was his creation, his invention.

Constantine saw Jesus as a failed messiah, with himself as the real messiah – and his view was ratified by the famous Christian bishop, Eusebius of Caesarea, who said, “It is as if the religion of Abraham is at last fulfilled, not in Jesus, but in Constantine.”

He also changed Jesus’ birthday from January sixth to December twenty-fifth, the day of the solar rebirth. The twenty-fifth of December, which is celebrated all over the world, is not Jesus’ birthday. The whole idea of their Christmas is bogus – and the church knows it perfectly well but won’t allow people to know about it.

Jesus was born on January sixth, but under Constantine’s influence and power, it was changed to December twenty-fifth, the day of the solar rebirth. It is thought by the sun worshippers that the sun was born on the twenty-fifth of December.

The whole of Christianity is living in utter darkness.

Constantine, killed ten thousand people in a single day. He just called an assembly of all those who were not Catholics in a great auditorium in Rome, and ordered the army to kill everybody: “We don’t want anybody other than Christians in Rome.” He forced the whole of Italy to become Christian… just at the point of a sword.

The whole history of Christianity is of wars and nothing else – killing and violence.

Constantine imposed himself as the real last prophet for whom the Jews had been waiting. Of course, the Jews could not crucify the emperor of Rome. And the Christians wanted some royal support; otherwise they were being crucified everywhere. They found a shelter in Constantine, but it was a bargain, purely business. They accepted that Jesus was a failed messiah, and that Constantine was the real messiah.

But this is not told to the public! Christians are not aware of it. All these scriptures are hidden under the Vatican.

They have been talking about truth, but they have been hiding immensely important things.

They have changed all the gospels, they have edited everything that was going to be difficult for them to argue for, to defend.

The whole of Christianity lives in a paranoia that if anybody finds some truth, then what is going to happen to their lies that they go on propagating?

The Vatican has an underground library of thousands of scriptures which they have burned, saving only one copy.

Nobody is allowed to enter, except the pope and the cardinals, to see all the evidence, all the proofs which go against Christianity.

The public is not allowed to know what the truth is.

It should open the underground library in the Vatican to all the scholars who want to study there, and Christianity will evaporate without leaving a single trace on the human consciousness.

Religions teach faith because they cannot help you to find the truth.

They themselves don’t know where truth is.

Perhaps, in the whole history of the popes, only one pope was honest.

This pope was Pope Leo the Tenth in the sixteenth century.

He is reported to have said, “It has served us well, this myth of Christ.”

Osho – Christianity: the deadliest poison and Zen: the antidote to all poisons.

Android Jones

The fifth gospel of Thomas was written in India.

It has not been included in the Bible, it was not available to Constantine, who was compiling, and who was deciding what was to be included and what was not to be included. It was because of him that all these ideas and mythologies and fictions have been added to the life of Jesus.

Jesus sent Thomas to south India.

Thomas, is the disciple closest to Jesus. But his sayings are not included in the Bible, because the real Jesus and his closest disciples have to be excluded – they are too dangerous.

Jesus was trained in one of the oldest secret schools.

The school was called Essenes. The teaching of the Essenes is pure Vedanta.That’s why Christians don’t have a record of what happened to Jesus before his thirtieth year.

They have a little record of his childhood, and they have a record after his thirtieth year up to the thirty-third, when he was crucified – they know a few things.

But a phenomenon like Jesus is not an accident; it is a long preparation, it cannot happen just any moment.

Jesus was continuously being prepared during these thirty years.

He was first sent to Egypt and then he came to India.

In Egypt he learned one of the oldest traditions of secret methods, then in India he came to know about the teachings of Buddha, the Vedas, the Upanishads, and he passed through a long preparation.

Those days are not known because Jesus worked in these schools as an unknown disciple.

And Christians have knowingly dropped those records, because they would not like the son of God to also be a disciple of somebody else.

They would not like the very idea that he was prepared, taught, trained – that looks humiliating.

They think the son of God comes absolutely ready.

Nobody comes absolutely ready…




If you look without, the world of the many exists; if you look within, then the world is one.

If you go outside you may achieve much, but you will miss the one.

The pearl is symbolic of the one, the inner.

And that one is your very center; if you miss it you have missed all.

You may attain much but that much will not count much in the end, because unless one attains to oneself nothing is attained.

If you are a stranger to yourself, even the whole world will not fulfill you.

If you have not got into your own being, then all the riches will make you even poorer.

The truth is so clear, but still we go on missing.

Man, if he lives with the mind, can never be innocent — and only in innocence does the divine descend, or do you ascend to the divine.

Innocence is the door.

Mind is cunning, calculating, it is clever, and because of this cleverness you miss – you miss the reality of life.

If you are not awake, you are not here, you simply believe that you are.

This belief won’t help.

You are not alert, you are not awake: you simply think that you are awake and alert.

Your sleep continues from birth to death.

If somebody came to Jesus to ask what he should do to change, Jesus would say:

You cannot do anything to change unless you become awake.

What can you do?

What can a man who is fast asleep do to change his dreams?

The deepest urge in man is to be totally free.

Freedom from mind, is the goal.

Jesus calls it the kingdom of God…

Osho – The Mustard Seed : Commentaries on the Fifth Gospel of Thomas

Peace or Mind…

Android Jones

You were thinking that religiousness is something extraordinary, very special, is attained by very special people. It was not your thinking; this has been told to you for centuries. This is the way the whole of humanity has been deceived for thousands of years: religiousness is something so extraordinary, it happens only to special people, prophets, messiahs, saviors, incarnations of God. It is not for the ordinary and the common people. And you have accepted that conditioning. That conditioning is acceptable to the mind because it gives mind an immense scope to ask for more. It gives mind the opportunity never to be satisfied; there must be more.

My whole approach is that religiousness is just like freedom, just like your heartbeat. It is nothing special, it is nothing extraordinary; it is not something to be achieved – there is no question of excitement. Mind is not needed at all. If you are going to achieve something, then mind is needed, then mind’s support is needed; then mind has to think of ways and means of how to achieve it.

But religiousness is your nature. You are born religious. Every child is born religious; it is the society that makes him irreligious, it is the society that corrupts him. It is your religious leaders who are responsible for making the whole of humanity irreligious.

Your religious leaders, your popes, your shankaracharyas, imams… They are destroying the innocence of the child, which is the very center of religiousness. They are destroying the pure humanity of the child by making him a Jew, a Christian, a Hindu, a Buddhist. They are putting masks on the child, conditionings on his mind; and they are giving you this desire that you have to achieve religiousness – which is a rare adventure.

You have been befooled for centuries.

And mind is in absolute cooperation with the cheaters, exploiters, because if religion is something like a goal far away, and only special and extraordinary people achieve it, then mind is very happy. That is its desire – to be special, to be somebody extraordinary, higher than others, holier than others, a saint, a prophet, a messiah. The mind is not happy with being just an ordinary and normal human being; it is ready to sacrifice everything to become extraordinary.

But whatever it does it can never become religious, because religion is not there, far away, as a goal.

Religion is your source.

It is your very being.

You are not to achieve it, you are simply to remember it. So when I say to you, you are religious, you have only forgotten it… you have been made to forget it. Your innocence has been covered with all kinds of ugly, stupid theologies; you have been given all kinds of faces. But your original face has been lost in these artificial faces.

Your original face is the face of the religious man. You brought it into the world; you came into the world absolutely natural, pure, innocent, loving. You came into the world playful, non-serious, enjoying the small things of the world – collecting seashells on the beach, running after butterflies, collecting flowers, colored stones – and you were so happy, as if you had found the world’s greatest treasure.

You had unprejudiced eyes, you had an unpolluted heart.

Hence I say again: Religiousness is only a question of remembering what has been forgotten. It is an ordinary human phenomenon. Your mind is cheating you, deceiving you still. Although you are feeling serene, you are feeling peaceful, you are feeling happy, the mind goes on saying to you, “There must be something more.” It will go on saying the same to you even if you meet God – who does not exist…

You cannot satisfy yourself if you listen to the mind; if you don’t listen to the mind, right this very moment, contentment is yours. You can choose between the misery of the mind… because mind will always remain miserable, asking for more and more; that desire is unending…

I will tell you an ancient parable…

Damien Hirst's Skull126Damien Hirst, 2007 – Diamond Encrusted Skull

A beggar knocked on the doors of the palace. By chance the king was just coming out for his morning walk in the garden, so he himself opened the door. The beggar said, “It seems to be a fortunate day for you.”

The king said, “For me or for you?”

The beggar said, “By the end of the day it will be decided. I am a beggar and I ask only one thing. I have got this begging bowl; can you fill it up – with anything you like?”

The beggar looked a little strange. His eyes were those of a mystic; his speaking was not that of a beggar but of an emperor. His whole aura was of tremendous authority. The king ordered his prime minister to fill the beggar’s bowl with gold coins, so that he would remember that he had knocked on the door of a king, and that he was fortunate. The beggar laughed.

The king said, “What is the matter?”

He said, “By the evening everything will be decided.” His behavior was strange but very attractive too. He was a beautiful man.

And then the trouble started. As the prime minister brought a bag of gold coins to fill the bowl, they all disappeared, and the bowl remained empty. More coins, more coins… all the coins that were in the treasury were brought, and they all disappeared. The whole town gathered there and the news spread like wildfire.

The king said, “Whatever the case, bring all the diamonds, rubies, emeralds, but fill the beggar’s bowl.” But everything disappeared in it and the bowl remained as empty as ever.

Finally the king lost everything. It was evening. The whole day there had been great excitement all over the capital. The king was stubborn – but now there was no point, he had nothing else to give. He fell at the feet of the beggar and asked him the secret of the bowl. “Is it a magic bowl? It is evening and you have been telling me again and again, `By the evening, by sunset, everything will be decided.’ Now it is time. And in a way everything is decided, I have been defeated by a beggar. But you are not an ordinary beggar. All I want to know is, what is the secret of this begging bowl?”

Dali128Salvador Dali, with photograph by Phillipe Halsman (1906-1979)
Near Voluptuous Death, 1951.

The beggar said, “It is not a secret, it is something everybody knows. Just look closely at the begging bowl. It is made of the skull of a man.”

The king said, “I don’t understand.”

The beggar said, “Nobody understands. Inside the skull of man is his mind. You go on pouring everything in it and everything disappears. It is always asking for more; it is always empty. It is always a beggar, you cannot change it. You can only understand it and get rid of it…

Osho  –  Socrates Poisoned Again After 25 Centuries

#28 Peace or Mind



photo by kamakshi

When you start a project, how do you get into it?

In that moment, the moment expands, because there is no time. We just give value to time, but for everyone it’s different. We have already found that in Physics through Einstein. You expand the moment, you make it large; and in that expansion, everything starts to take form, more and more. Its like a photograph, you can make it larger. Everything we know now is because of the moment that we expand. With technology like microscopes, we can see the cells of the body, and in the space between the bodies that make the cell there is fluid. In this fluid there is information and that’s what makes the cell. It’s till the point which we make anything larger, because it’s the creative mind that does that, it creates this expansion of the moment. You take the moment and you make it bigger, how much ever you want. And in this expansion, everything is there, you find out the sense of it all. And then automatically everything takes shape, by itself. You are just there in this process, you choose to be in this process. And for everybody and everything, it’s the same – only we don’t find out, we don’t think about it. In cooking also, it’s in the way how you lose yourself in that moment; you cook in that way, in that way you do everything. Because otherwise everything is just work – which means repetition of an act.

What’s your favourite material to work with?

It changes compared to the need. The material water is, because there is the need of water. The material air is, because there is the need of air. Everything changes as compared to the need; and we are there in between, and we fuse it, and things come out – like Nature does. Nature is mixing all this, and changing it from this to that. We are just following that, everything that we belong to is a synthesis of, we are a synthesis of… we exist only because of that.

I have heard that there’s a poet from Ireland, who comes every year to see the Shiva sculpture you’ve made, on a pilgrimage…


Yes, I saw it on the net. He says that he always finds inspiration from it.  Do you use three dimensions to create a deeper dimension? And is this intentional?

Anything that we are feeling – it’s a state of mind. We feel angry, it’s a state of mind. We feel happy, it’s just a state of mind – that’s all. They are just states of mind, we are made of that. A state of mind belongs to you. When you are in front of something and it makes you feel like that, it is because it’s opening you, your total body. And it is your body not only now, in this life, but your body in the whole; you connect with all the rest that is there. It belongs to you, but you are separate. You become united with everything, and this opens the door. And in this moment, you just feel inside you and then you know that what is possible. You know yourself and what is possible which before you were not thinking about. Feeling this, that you can find yourself, and being open in a point that you can receive – this is what art brings you, it brings you in that state of mind. You need to create, or find out how it is possible to be in that.

There is not an analyzed border around us, that when we reach the border, then we follow the wall (Laughs) like the ants do to find the way to go out, they just get attached to some border…dug, dug, dug… When they see that, then they go, no?  But if this border is closed around you, automatically (Laughs) you turn around. This is the dimension. The dimension is one track. When we speak about three dimensions, it’s already something better, I mean, already there are three. Three dimensions, it means there is not a track of just one dimension – there is also the second and the third. The Chinese say, after the first comes the second. After the second comes the third. And after the third, a thousand things are coming – this is Lao Tzu. It means there are no borders. A thousand dimensions – there are. For now we are already on this point.

Even in art, you can see very well, that it was not possible for them to make the face. It was not possible. Only the profile was possible to make. The face has so many contours, goes in and out at every point. In the dark, the face is just… you don’t see anything, you know. (Laughs) And men took thousands of years to reach more dimensions than the only one. Everything was just reduced to one dimension. Where is the depth, the concept of depth? It looks simple now, but till the Middle Ages they were thinking that this line was a straight line (Gestures to the horizon) that this was just a disc. Now we see very well that it is a sphere, we cannot mistake it. Even if we watch somebody disappearing over the horizon, within a few kilometers already he disappears. But we see that he comes back, it means that he did not fall down. This is something that is taken for granted just in the last 200 years. Now our vision is one vision. See the sphere of the planet? Me, I see the sphere of the planet, just like it is, very easy. Just watch the moon, you don’t see that it is a disc, come on, even the shadow on it is really a curved shadow, and it’s spherical. Its good news for us that we understand now, only now, not before; but now we understand that the different dimensions – they are there. Now we can really see and explore.

Einstein had said that there are 256 realities happening at the same time  and that we will discover them.

He was thinking this through Physics, automatically you reach there. But in any science you can reach this point. Even in art, you reach this point. You feel it, without the information through Physics, already you reach.


As an artist, did you teach yourself, or were you trained? Has creativity always come naturally to you?

I was painting, I was doing something, creating something, always. And then I stopped using the brush for painting or for colouring. Apart from that, actually for me, there is no separation between brush and clay and stone. There is no separation, everything goes together. Here is a moment of painting, and there is moment of doing something else. You need to create this, and then on that you can even paint, you know. They are passages – there is painting, there is building, there is carving, the creating depends on the material that you are using. If you carve a crystal, you think to put a crystal, you think to put a certain colour of metal around – already you are into colour without using a brush. Combining the colour of the stones together, or fusing metals, or creating shapes using certain colours in the metals, already you go into painting. When I am working with mud… first of all, I like the colour of mud, and depending on the colour of what I am carving or modeling, which colour is coming to me automatically. That gives me the condition so that I can do this, or that, or its coming out this, and I can choose… I can know what I have to do, just because the colour is there – it is inspiring me, automatically. The blue is inspiring how the blue can inspire, the red… I carve a lot of crystals, I have experience in carving crystals and working with crystals. I mean, its materials, its not… (Laughs) And so you learn – doing things, you learn. You learn because each material has its properties, its hardness, and this and that, and you learn. The more you do, the more you use that material, the more you know about that material – how you can use only that material and not another. So this becomes a big thing; there are branches, and then you can go completely into specialized things because the material wants that.

And what I was saying before, that I was using the brush, painting with the brush, mixing colours with the brush, and then I stopped. I reached where I reached in that moment with the brush and then I stopped to paint. I was working only with clay or other materials. I touched the brush one time after two years, or even three years, and you know, I started from the point that I left three years ago. I had to go back to take some things and it was not possible for me three years after. I needed a little time to start to mix again in the way that I used to, to come to the point where I left and to continue. Ce, I want to tell you what that means. You need to do, otherwise you stop exactly there.

Do you feel when you come back to it after a couple of years that it has gone deeper? Is it different?

You mean the last time compared to the time before. Yeah, let’s say we know that we live in the moment. We have to always be conscious of this. Otherwise we can lose ourselves into an imaginary world. It is not an imaginary world. The world does not exist, it’s just not imaginary. Imaginary is just a conditioning. Nothing is really, really existing. It is just very relative. (Breaks into laughter)

Do you predetermine meaning in your work? What is your vision?

My vision is…  What comes is really the thing that must be. To ‘let’s see what comes’ is very difficult, because the mind is much faster than you somehow. When it catches you, this is the point when it’s better to do nothing because it’s a lost point. It means it’s a moment you don’t have the feeling to do, because the moment is really decided. I can translate it into one word – feeling.  The meaning is exactly the meaning of the now. It does not belong to you, because the now is the now. That’s why you can create and you can not create, in the same action that you are doing. Its not that you can always create, it’s just that you go for it. But going for it does not mean that you are doing creation. It’s just that you are going for it because you like it, because it’s your history, and you go for it. And in your work, you know how to be in this wave. But it does not belong to you. It’s all of your life coming into this question of the need of the moment. You open yourself to the whole, you contact the beginning, the beginning of life. You contact really yourself deep, deep. And you need to let the hands go, because only like that they can… (Laughs)…know. This is really incredible, it’s really practical, it’s becoming practical in working, you know. You need this state of mind, and then for sure in that state of mind the feeling is there, everything is there… It’s made for it, that you can work, that you can… But in all that, there is also ‘not work’. There is the opposite inside. Its not that okay, you are the artist. You are the artist only when you are working.

How do you put meaning in your work?

I express myself because we are made to express ourselves, it’s not because I wanted to express myself – and everything belongs to that. We exist, and we express ourselves. Everyone is expressing themselves doing something, for everyone there is the particular way that belongs to your connection to life, and through that… You can find incredible people everywhere, in many situations, all groups of people – this is the story also. We are open because we don’t know where it is… (Laughs)…everything is. It’s because of ourselves that we cannot see anything else. We need to be open to the fact that everything has value, we have to give value to everything. You don’t know where it is, but you know that it’s there. Then what do you do? You are not looking in between people; you don’t need to, because you know already that inside each one is something incredible. Don’t think that it’s only this or only that – it’s in everything. We cannot make discrimination on the basis of simply that. There is no discrimination, we are the same. We are one. I cannot decide, I cannot think that everything I’m doing has to have a meaning. The meaning is already in the society where I am, where I live, in which way I am, really. And then what’s coming is really out of me. I let go a little bit, I am not involved in it, because I know that something is coming only if I’m really doing something. And I’m very sorry… (Laughs) …actually I would like that things are just known. You find inner energy, in that meaning you can understand, because you have the energy to do. And in the moment that you are, then you are doing. You can only do certain things if you are lucky, then you can realize them. Sometimes there is the potential, but you cannot do it… And this is really the one point which is very important because many people die before, I mean, many artists that died at 30 years old, or 20 years old,  just worked for 2-3 years. Okay, there are other artists like Dali; he really worked, no?  Picasso was working  hundreds of years, I mean, it’s a long time… (Laughs)

Really prolific…

You understand. They were so busy, like Michelangelo. You see Michelangelo, my God, he was working till 90 years old and more… This is what made Michelangelo… to have this possibility, also. That’s why if an artist has the possibility to do work, normally it must be had. This is the sensibility of the moment to understand that it belongs to the human being; it’s a process that is not easy, after all it’s the creative process, which can help 1000 years more of maintaining something culturally, or like Michelangelo, you know, he’s the proof. If he hadn’t been there, we would still be really in the Middle Ages… (Laughter)

Yeah,  he was the Renaissance Revolution…

Yes, he was lucky because he entered in something that was giving… people were giving him the possibility to create, because they understood that it’s for us, it’s not for him. And this is in the way how you help artists, artists in general. All the artists, they are most of them in this problem.


Business and also surviving; I know many friends of mine that were really very enthusiastic about their work when they were young. Now they do completely different work, because society gets in the way of your sensibility… Society is skinning you, you know, its skinning you. Its difficult to maintain – makes no sense.

Internet and Art – as an artist, how do you see this medium?

The difference between man and anything else on this planet is just because we use tools and nobody else uses tools. We know that the first tool, the stone, was broken in a way to be sharp enough to use for animal skins or whatever, for the need of the moment. We started with that, but you see very well that now nobody is making this tool anymore because we don’t need it anymore, we have improved. Now we use metals, we have other tools – the internet is a tool. It’s a tool of the now, its one tool of the now; I could also use it as television. Its in the music, you see, now with techno, the sound itself really got a boost, its incredible how much sound is there, we never had this possibility before, how you can manipulate each sound and do things. Now the music does not belong to, I don’t know how many instruments – tools. It’s the same word, its just tools for the sound.  Some people don’t like the idea because they are still stuck, they want to always listen to the same thing (Laughs) and okay, it’s no problem. Me, I like to listen to what was nice from before also, but it’s past. I see it like this, I can say this – this is past, I accept this very well. I like the Egyptian Pyramids so much, but it’s the past, you know. Now, if you imagine that everyone, because now everyone is a king, now everyone should make a pyramid for only to die. I mean, you know, it’s not possible. It was possible for them, they were few. Now all the deserts of this world would be full of pyramids. (Laughs) It’s really interesting when you watch how we are now, its incredible. When we read something from before, if you read some poetry from, I don’t know when, ”Oh, your legs, like the legs of the giraffe….” (Laughter) Ce, now if you say this to some girl she will look at you like you are, really, you know…

She’ll slap you… Also it depends on what part of the world you are in, because in Africa if you are big – they will love you, and if you are not – they will not love you.  It depends where you are, or like you were saying which time period you are living in…

Yes, yes, in which time you are. And this time is always there because you, so intelligent you, if there is a possibility that you are on an island, and you don’t contact anybody, and you have only what you have there, you will be the same like your ancestors 10,000 years ago. You will act the same and you will think the same, it’s incredible. Why? Because these guys and us, in brain content – we are the same. Okay, we memorize, we exercise, and we keep in memory what we are doing, because without memory it was not possible for anything to exist here-now. If I didn’t learn Newton’s formula in school,  which can be passed on to the next one, I cannot be a Physicist of now. Its just because of memory, otherwise I don’t have the time to recreate all the experiences again that made us reach to this point. We have the same brain content, our ancestors and us, our species; it’s not that now we know more because our brain is more… No, no, no, no, it’s the same. Then tomorrow, if nobody teaches you something, you will forget everything, you can really fall into the Dark Ages seriously. Nobody is thinking about this – that how can a certain mind that was existing thousands of years ago, exist now? It’s incredible, no? And it’s a very serious story, because that mind is acting with the tools of now. They don’t have a stone in the hand – every mind can use the tools that are here on this planet now. It’s not a question of society or system, its question of each person has this mind.

Its like you were saying, it’s the conflict and the fusion, because it’s different Ages at the same time…

We are creative, and we exist on the planet doing creative things in this moment. We start from what we have now, and we go on. For example with the laws that society has now, we have reached till this point where we are. But it’s possible also to have other laws, we see in history over the years, always that laws have changed. They make other laws, they make them more particular, and society is becoming more and more sophisticated, before it was a very simple society. It means that many mistakes done by people were not so dangerous compared to the society that we live in now.

We are on the point now, especially after the 2nd world war that we have started to consider that the world is one, everybody is connected with somebody else, and then it started to become more and more a planetary affair, more than separate nations. The nation now is nothing if it’s not in the organization of the world. At this point, it’s not enough to be just a nation; because you need to import, to export, you have materials to sell. And now there is a global law which has a limit, because each law has a limit. And the limit is in what is really happening in the world – the limit of the law itself. Because if there is a law that if you kill somebody, you go in prison. Automatically, the prisons are full of people that have killed somebody. Its not that the law stops somebody to kill, you understand? If you make more restrictions, another law, automatically you will have the prison full again, by the law that restricts that. You create the people who afterwards occupy this prison. Society is creating this automatically, no? Then you can think about it and say, okay, but this law is a law that is creating the killer. The law against the killing is creating the killer, the law against stealing is creating the robber. Automatically, each law that they make is to create something as compared to the law. Then once this law is there, there will be the guy who is in the prison for doing that. That means that we are really in a mess. What I want to say is it’s a world where human beings are very much into the revenge trip of the child… still. It means that we have not reached the point of really, really being a society – we are still wild. Each one of us is still a wild animal, controlled by the law. Otherwise if the law wasn’t there, it would really be chaos. But now because this law is there, it’s filling all the prisons. But it means that really if we don’t have the control of somebody, we are not free enough to know that we don’t have to kill, we are not free enough to know that we don’t have to steal. This freedom inside, in this mind, on this planet, is in a very few people that exist, that is, the people of the present. All the rest are still living in the past, using the power for corruption, it means you are still in the past but you use the tools of the present for your personal story. You imagine how much the human being is still a wild animal, you cannot control. If there is a blackout in a city for 2-3 days, it’s finished. All the shops are looted, try to understand, the wild in us is coming out. In the moment that I see a girl coming in the dark, and we are two-three, we go to rape, automatically. You imagine, even if they put the law, it shows me that really we are animals; but wild, wild animals completely.

So, evolution hasn’t happened yet…

Yeah, because each one of us is following, I don’t know what belief. They think that now through this I will be saved, I will save my soul, or I will reach Nirvana, or whatever.

What has been the biggest challenge in your work?

I only hope that I will have the possibility to work. I have really to struggle to be in the moment, to be in this state of mind, you know, I have to work for it. When I am in that point of creation, it means really that I was fighting to reach this point. Not fighting in the sense like fighting somebody, but trying to really enter into this possibility. Then it’s always a challenge somehow, it’s not easy. It means if you enter in a system how they want, for example, a painter should do exhibitions here and there if he wants to be a painter. You must follow certain rules to do something. If you don’t follow the rules, you are somehow an outsider, and you will be recognized only after death, you understand, you risk going into this category of people. That’s why if it’s possible that you work, that means it’s a good point. I am very happy for that, you know (Laughs)

That’s the joy in your life…

Yes, the joy is because, you know, the personal life of each one goes incredibly up and down, especially if you are in this story, it becomes more complicated. Otherwise, what do you do? Okay, you are in some city, but I don’t find the reason, no? Reason is there everywhere in the world where it’s possible that somebody can do something. All I want to say is – don’t be so complicated, trust it, give. There must be a possibility. It’s a kind of operation of sensibilisation, how do you say?

Sensitisation, sensitivity… Isn’t sensitivity, sensibility in Italian?

Sensibilisation, it means working to grow in sensibility. To have the sensibility of becoming a human being, become more fine.  Then many, many things drop, this jealousy and everything, it’s because we are rough, no? And we need to refine ourselves a little bit. This is what Art is for actually. Because it comes from the ambient, and it gives to the ambient; from a lower level of human being to a higher level of human being. Art is very important for people in society because it gives this higher relation with people, it does not remain a very basic, rough relationship. Many things will disappear by themselves like violence, automatically. Not everybody is like that guy who was passing by and he got a moment of inspiration – Art is made for this. That is why people go to the museums; it’s not only to look . Also mathematics became more evolved, it became higher mathematics – this is the point. The challenge is this actually – be sensible. (Laughs) We open up ourselves – this is it. Open up ourselves, no fear, nothing.

When we came to India in the beginning, most of the people were like: you are you, and they are the others; the tribe is the tribe, this concept of tribal, that somebody else is a foreigner. How the world is now, this mind cannot be, you understand, it cannot be. We are one on this planet, completely, here. This planet belongs to us, each one follows what he wants. And you and you, you are the same. Only you decide to be this, and he decided to be that. But there is no difference. We are one on this planet; we work for us, for the planet. Now soon all the ice will melt, the planet will be… the tsunami goes anywhere, it does not look what place is this. We have to face all this together, no? All this is now the planet’s story, it’s no more this nation and that nation. Me, I belong to the world, I don’t belong to one nation. I don’t really feel I belong to Italy, because when I close my eyes, I cannot see Italy. I mean, its there, but where?

You are a multi-dimensional artist, from the Shiva sculpture to… Would you like to talk about your different projects, or your art?

Its not only one project, it is your life itself. This is the project of your life; there are not two, three, four projects. Dimensions there can be, even thousands… (Laughs) This is the project – to maintain the sense of creating. It’s not the exhibition of somebody in some gallery, that is only for business –  I don’t give value to that. There can be, but I don’t give value to that, I never believed in that, actually. I never thought that is art, you know. Trying to work, and maintaining this, that this feeling is there – that’s all.  All the rest comes together in the next project, which can be anywhere on this planet. Its there already, already there are projects, but they are closed in a box, in the sense, who knows that what we are creating is something that can have the impact, or can have the message, and only then you create… Much of my work got lost, and much of my work, I saw, remained unfinished. I started many projects that are just projects, but no realization happened. I don’t speak only for me, I know that for many people it’s like this also, especially creative people. They think a lot of artists are not under control, and so lets throw this away, and because we need to maintain the art, so what do we do? So we fix that art now is this – its already a society story, it does not belong anymore to art. Much of it goes afterwards into parallel branches that can be in fashion, or architecture, or interior decoration, or exterior decoration, or landscaping. It can go into anything, it is parallel, goes into different things. We see very well with Picasso, he took African art… Okay, now, if I can go in one tribe, where I see all this art full on, I would go crazy, you know. Picasso took this and he put it in his art, and sometimes it made it more horrible because there was no meaning why he was doing this. At least with the tribe, there was meaning around the art, on the clay surface with the white or relief of mud. And then Picasso took it, and we discovered African art through him, through Picasso, somehow.

Ah, really?

Yes, because otherwise the concept till the end of the century was this, that these are primitive people. The watching of certain things is of the new mind. When the Spanish arrived in South America, all that was there from the Incas and Mayans, all this incredible work – they fused everything, they melted it down. What they have now, is just because by mistake it remained buried under ground, and then they found these through archaeological expeditions  Otherwise all that they were robbing in that moment was becoming just a piece of cold gold.

It’s strange how they always come and destroy beautiful art, like Khajuraho, and now the Bamiyan Buddhas…

That’s why I say, it’s now that we start to open the mind to others. But not all the time, because much of the time, still it’s in the old, trying to still maintain the old story. Like how much an issue there was in America about Barack Obama being white or black or… Try to imagine, for a long time in America, half of the Americans are black, and still you have issues like this, stories like this, whether he is white or not… This is the Middle Ages, and it is the mind of the people. Try to understand, to think about it, that the colour of the skin can make the difference…for me its really incredible, it’s too much. (Laughs) That’s what I was saying, take care that we are wild animals. I mean, be aware of it, that’s what I have to say  (Laughs)

At least you should be aware…

Kazo! Be aware of it, how easy it is for you is to go into jealousy, to flip out when you see your wife… and you can go to kill, its easy. You can be the top doctor in some hospital, its not important who you are, try to understand, this is sensibility. The sensibility about everything, reaching one point and evolving into a higher man, a higher level. This does not belong to religion, it doesn’t belong to anything. And now it’s clear because we know about time, more than before. It’s very easy to go out. It’s very clear, and people can understand. That’s why now we have this mass movement of people, before this kind of thing did not exist, the pattern of the now, this thing of the now, before it was not possible to be. And many people, we are enjoying the moment.

As an artist, how do you promote yourself? How do people get to hear about you?

I don’t know nothing about it, I don’t know how… Okay, for the now, I am here.

How do people get to hear about you?

Its like I was saying before, we belong to a moment and things happen in the moment. And automatically like me, there are others. I mean, we live in contact with the present time vision. If somebody is feeling that he’s living really in the present, he’s there with us. Because you can see, its here and now, it means that somebody must be there, to be now, to be here. Then it means that you are not alone on an island, you are on this planet, you don’t need to know somebody else, its enough that you know that there are people of the present occupying the space of the present, because each time is a space, because its connected  –  space and time. There is actually one entity that is space-time, there is no space, there is no time. It’s this entity – space-time. The space of the present is occupied only by people living in the present. All the rest does not exist, because it does not occupy the space, it exists in another space. Then if I go in the 11th century, I will see the people who are occupying the 11th century space. The space on this planet is compared to time. Each one has the space of the time that he’s living in. It’s not only a question about time, because you see, we finally come to understand why time is there, and its relation also with space.

What do you love most about your work?

I love the part that when I do something, I lose myself on the way. Then when I am in the point that really there is full confusion there, there is a kind of ecstasy there. You are in the chaos, then you are completely lost. From that moment you start to come out of it, you come out of this chaos that you were creating. So, in the creation the chaos is there. This is very connected – creation and chaos. When you are in chaos, you are already half-way (Laughs) This is what I know. And then from that chaos, I come out slowly, slowly, I come out till one point that I can say, okay, something has come out. I love this, I love this ‘losing yourself’ in this. I know myself since I was very small that I was working, I recognized the sensation…

That space…

Exactly, for that actually I have to say I sacrificed, it’s not to say, but I sacrificed much for that to be…


What’s your story with India, how did she find you?

Traveling is expanding, one of the ways that you expand your memory. Just being in a place like India, it was coming in a flash where even the smell reminds me. In India they have a civilization; it means already they know first of all how to wash themselves, how to take care of themselves, just the basic things like cleaning the teeth, and all this. In Europe only just now all this is coming, you understand, it didn’t exist before. Who was washing teeth in their life, somewhere in England, for example, for thousands of years, or somewhere in France…who? Nobody. You were coming after a certain age with green teeth. This cleaning was not existing, the sense of cleaning – this came later with civilization. In India, you can see in the real things how civilization really started here, and after that spread; in the sense of knowledge of things, how to take care of your self, basics of medicine, how to survive. I mean, there was nothing anywhere. You see how people here are maintaining the simple life in nature,  how they can have the possibility to be in nature. It’s an old civilization, and we don’t have this civilization, you know. Before in Europe,  people were dying from epidemics every 10 years, the last epidemic was very, very strong – killed half of Europe in just the last century, half of Europe disappeared. I mean, even the concept of going to the toilet – the toilet was something just there, and then throwing it out on the road, not even looking if someone is down there.


Yes, yes, yes. They were throwing their shit just on the road, try to understand. If somebody was there just under – boom. There was no concept, and automatically it was full of epidemics and disease. It was really a problem, the cities full polluted.  And then slowly, slowly they started to do the whole story.

And apart from that, you see that religion started in India. Not possible to be anywhere else. Everywhere else was only shamanism and tribal belief. Religion started to be religion for the first time in India. And religion, what is it? It is human being that started to evolve, that is really the first stage of religion – to be human. Before that religion was really, completely, animal, cannibal, there was no love between people. Then started to come religion – to give love.

What’s your story with India…?

Yes, when I was around 16, India was in fashion with the new generation of students, first time in Europe, because we were the first students, or children of the new era. Before this didn’t exist, my father was not obliged to go to school, only the rich went to school, it was not for everybody. All the rest were workers, working hard, without knowing how to read and write. And then with the 2nd world war, with the Republic, everybody had to go to school. In the 60’s mass schooling started for everybody, it became obligatory to go to school. Then automatically, we were the first generation of students, everybody… (Laughs) Ce, I must say, we were all of us students, no? It was something that you started to read, you started to know, you started to contact other people. Before this, it was not possible. You contacted only your neighbour, where you are working. And then many people contacted each other, and the information was spreading already, and we were thirsty for information, because we didn’t know anything, because we didn’t how know to read or write. This mass schooling was creating everything, it opened the mind. Imagine, when I was like in the second year or third year of schooling, 8-10 years old, my professor used to say, ”Ah, in India, they are starving because they refuse to eat the cows which are plenty.” For them, it really was something for laughing, because they didn’t understand that in India why they are starving, having so many cows to eat… (Laughs) Ce, my professor, capito?   What I want to say, a new thing, a thing that never was before, was happening. Nothing was routine, everything was for the first time. Really, in the way how we are together, in the way how we act, which relations we have in between ourselves, you know, start to share things, breaking certain taboo about this and that… And slowly, slowly we came out of it. Society before was really blind. In the school, we started for the first time to fight against professors who were beating  children, before there were the rules of the old school mentality, they used to beat students. To beat children in school was normal, punishing them, you know.

Somehow with children or somebody who is more vulnerable, people tend to crush them more… its strange.

Incredible, it’s incredible. But we did this, we did the change, we fought for it, you understand? It was changed completely. Now in the schools, there are groups of students who have the right themselves to talk about how is the story of the school, now they have power – the students. It changed, but we started all that, this I want to say. It was not like this before, many things were for the first time. That’s why I am very wild in work, you know, I am very wild. I discovered myself many systems for work, to use materials that before were not existing. In the way I use the marble, nobody was using the marble like this before, I find this for myself, and you don’t learn this in school.

Interview with Jungle, the Artist and Visionary

by Kamakshi

The Enlightened Rebel…

It is possible to be a rebel without being enlightened. It is also possible to be enlightened without being a rebel. But both will be half-hearted; something will be missing, something which is very essential. It will be almost like a corpse – the soul is missing.

A rebel who is not enlightened is living in blindness, unconsciousness, darkness. He does not know what is right and what is not right – he has no clarity of vision. He cannot open up other people’s hearts for the birth of a new humanity – he himself is not born yet. His rebelliousness is nothing but a kind of thinking in his mind.

He is a revolutionary thinker, he is a philosopher, but he does not know exactly what will end this night, and how we are going to bring the dawn; how the sun will rise, how the birds will sing again and the flowers will open. But he can dream, he can think.

In the past there have been many philosophers who have been accepted as rebels, great rebels, but nothing has come out of them except some beautiful fragments of thoughts – unconnected, unscientific, non-pragmatic, impossible to be transformed into reality.

You must have heard the definition of a philosopher: a blind man, on a dark night, in an unlit house, searching for a black cat which is not there. But the trouble does not end here – there are many who have found it! They gave descriptions of the black cat, and because nobody else has seen it, you cannot refute them either. They don’t have any evidence – but neither have you! So whatever these blind philosophers go on saying is accepted without being refuted.

It is not refuted on other accounts either – because the establishment is not worried about these rebels and their rebellious thinking. They know perfectly well that their thoughts are nothing but soap bubbles; in their deep sleep, they have been chattering.

A rebel who is not enlightened is a rebel who is blind – not only blind, but also drunk – and his rebelliousness is a kind of reaction. That is the original meaning of the word `rebel’ – fighting against something, fighting back. He can see that something is wrong, something has to be destroyed. His life is not free, so there must be chains on his feet, handcuffs on his hands, and they must be broken; he has to free himself. But these are all assumptions.

One thing is certain: he knows misery, he knows suffering. He knows that his humanity has been reduced to almost the same level as animals; that his pride has been destroyed, his dignity has been completely erased. He is aware at least of what has been taken away from him and he starts fighting against it. His rebelliousness is a reaction, negative. It is fighting against something, not fighting for something.

I would like to add to the meaning of `rebel’ a positive side too, which is not there in the dictionaries. The dictionaries are all, without exception, giving only one meaning: fighting back, fighting against. But what is the use of fighting back and fighting against, if you don’t have a clear perception – for what? If you don’t have a vision of the future, and a better future with more rejoicing, then there is no point in unnecessarily fighting. But the rebel who is not enlightened will remain negative in his approach; hence he will remain half.

The enlightened man who is not a rebel is, in the same way, also half. He knows what has to be achieved, he knows the potential of man, he knows the faraway distant glories possible to humanity. But he is not ready to fight against the existing society, the existing slavery, all the obstacles and hindrances that are between the future and the present, between the old man and the new man. This kind of enlightened man has existed, and he was worshipped – worshipped by the old people, traditional and orthodox, conventional and rooted in the ancient heritage.

This enlightened man has a vision of a better future, of a better man. But he has not the guts to fight for it – to fight against the traditional, conventional structure of society and the old mind, which is conditioned and rotten – because he lives on their charity, he lives on their respect, honor and worship. He is not courageous enough to renounce all the respectability that they are bestowing upon him; to forget being called a saint and a sage by the rotten old past. He cannot just be a nobody, condemned, perhaps crucified, but fighting against what is wrong, fighting for that which is right and will be a blessing to all.

So both have been there: the unenlightened rebel and the wise man, enlightened but not rebellious. I want you to understand it very clearly that unless a man is both enlightened and rebellious simultaneously, he is not whole. He is incomplete, he is not entire; something is missing. He is not rich, not as rich as he could have been if there were nothing missing in him.

My conception of the enlightened man is that of a rebellious, totally rebellious man. To me rebelliousness and enlightenment have become almost a simultaneous phenomenon, a harmonious unity, an organic whole. Hence I say unto you that I am bringing into the world a new man – a new rebel and a new enlightened being both together in a single person, in each individual. This synthesis has become absolutely necessary.

The past has seen a Gautam Buddha, utterly enlightened but not rebellious. That’s why he was not crucified but worshipped, even by kings, emperors, learned people of his century. There was no fear in the establishment of those days that Gautam Buddha was a danger to them.

I have talked about Bakunin, Bukharin, Camus. All these are rebellious thinkers, but unenlightened. The society has not crucified them either. Society knows that their words are impotent, that they cannot ignite a wildfire in the hearts of humanity. People will read their books as entertainment; more than that is not possible as far as their writings are concerned. Hence, the society has not only tolerated them but respected them, rewarded them with great prizes.

My rebel will be not only a philosopher, he will be an experienced, awakened being.

His very presence will threaten all the establishments of the world.

His presence will be a challenge to all that enslaves man and destroys his spirit.

His presence will become a great fear in all those who are immensely powerful, but know perfectly well that their power depends on the exploitation of men, on keeping man retarded, on destroying man’s intelligence, on not allowing man to have his own individuality, his own original face.

Just a few rebellious enlightened people around the world and all the thrones of power will start shaking…

Osho – The Rebel

The Greatest Challenge…

 If we are going to solve the problems of the future and dissolve them, then we have to look for their roots in the past.

 It is our whole past, in all its dimensions, that has given rise to this dangerous situation.

 Our problems are international and our solutions are national, but no nation is capable of solving them.

You have heard these two words, dependence and independence.

Both are unreal: the reality is interdependence.

We have to take a quantum leap and teach the new generation not to live the way we have lived.

It is one humanity.

One world government was tried by the League of Nations before the second world war, but it could not succeed. It simply remained a debating club.

The second world war destroyed the very credibility of the League of Nations.
But the necessity was still there; therefore they had to create the United Nations Organization, the U.N.

But the U.N. is as much a failure as the League of Nations was. Again, it is still a debating club because it has no power. It cannot implement anything; it is just a formal discussion club.

The way the U.N. is now, with a few countries having veto power, one single government can veto something for the whole world.

The United Nations should be converted from a formal organization into a World Government.
This will change the whole power structure in the world,

Meritocracy is a whole program of transforming the structure of society, the structure of the government, the structure of education..

This is the only way: to replace the politicians by the intelligentsia.
Once you have decided to shift the power, everything becomes simple.

The members of the World Government will choose the world president.
But the world president will be chosen not from the members of the World Government, but from outside.

And one thing should be absolutely certain about him, that he is not a politician.
He can be a poet, a painter, a mystic, a dancer, but not a politician. Anything except that.

After nations, the second great disease is religions, the religions have destroyed man’s integrity.

They have broken him – not only in parts but into opposing parts, and these parts are continuously fighting with each other. In this way they have made humanity schizophrenic, by turning you against your own nature.

They have taken away your individuality, your freedom, your intelligence.
In its place they have given you bogus beliefs, which mean nothing.

Truth is a search, not a faith. It is an inquiry, not a belief.

An Authentic Religiousness, needs no prophets, no saviors, no churches, no popes, no priests – because religiousness is the flowering of your heart.

If religiousness spreads all over the world the religions will fade away.
It will be a tremendous blessing to humanity when man is simply man.

One humanity is enough. And one religiousness is enough.

Meditation, truth, love, authenticity, sincerity – which do not need any name… a quality,not something organized.

The moment organization comes in there is going to be violence, because there will be other organizations in conflict.

First nations, second religions; and third, a science completely devoted to a better life, to more life, to better intelligence, to more creativity – not to create more war, not to be destructive.

Start working with nature not as an enemy but as a friend.
The damage can be repaired,and the ecology will soon again be functioning as an organic unity.

Let it to be known to the whole world that if you are not ready to be one,
be ready to disappear from this planet…

excerpts from Osho’s

 The Greatest Challenge: the Golden Future

The Greatest Crime in the World? To Know The Truth…

Every child is born with an innate search for truth. It is not something learned or adopted later on in life. Truth simply means, “I am, but I do not know who I am.” And the question is natural – “I must know the reality of my being.” It is not a curiosity.

Man is capable by birth to inquire who he is. So it is not a question of learning, cultivation, education; you bring the quest with yourself. You are the quest.

Your society destroys you. It has very sophisticated ways and means to destroy your quest, to remove the question from your being, or at least cover it up. And the method it uses is this; before the child has even asked who he is, the answer is given. And any answer that has been given before the question has been asked is futile; it is going to be just a burden.

He is told that he is a soul, that he is a spirit, that he is not a body, that he is not material. Or, in communist countries, he is told that he is a body, just material, and that only in the old days, out of fear and ignorance, did people believe that they have souls – that that is just a superstition. But in both cases, the child is being given an answer for which he has not asked. And his mind is delicate, pure… and he trusts his mother, his father – there is no reason for him not to trust.

He starts a journey of belief, and belief kills the quest. He becomes more and more knowledgeable. Then education is there, religious education is there, and there is no end to collecting knowledge. But all this knowledge is futile – not only futile, but poisonous, because the first step has gone wrong. The question was not asked, and the answer has been implanted in his mind, and since then he has been collecting more and more answers. He has completely forgotten, that any answer that is not the finding of a question, is meaningless.

So the only quality of a seeker of truth is that he does not believe, that he is not a believer, that he is ready to be ignorant rather than to be knowledgeable, because ignorance is at least natural, simple, innocent. And out of ignorance there is a possibility, almost a certainty, that the question will arise, that the journey will begin. But through knowledge you are lost in a jungle of words, theories, doctrines, dogmas. And there are so many, and they are so contradictory to each other, that soon you will find yourself, more and more knowledgeable, more and more confused.

As far as I am concerned the basic quality of a seeker of truth is to cut himself away from all belief systems, from all borrowed knowledge – in other words, to have the courage to be ignorant rather than to have borrowed knowledge. Ignorance has a beauty; it is at least yours, authentic, sincere.

It has come with you. It is your blood, it is in your bones, it is your marrow.

Knowledgeability is ugly, absolute rubbish. It has been poured upon you by others, and you are carrying the load of it. And the load is such that it will not give you any opportunity to inquire on your own what truth is. Your collection of knowledge will answer immediately that this is truth.

If you are filled with The Holy Bible, then the question will be answered by The Holy Bible. If you are filled with the Vedas, then the question will come out of the Vedas. But it will come from some source outside yourself; it will not be your discovery. And that which is not your discovery is not yours.

Truth brings freedom because it is your discovery. It makes you fully into a man; otherwise you remain on the level of the animals; you are, but you don’t know who you are. The search for truth is really the search for the reality of your being.

Once you have entered your being, you have entered into the being of the whole, because we are different on the periphery but at the center we meet – we are one. You can draw many lines from the periphery of a circle towards the center; those lines on the periphery have a certain distance from each other. But as they come closer to the center, the distance goes on becoming less. And when they reach to the center the distance disappears.

At the center we are one.

At the periphery of existence we appear to be separate.

And to know the truth of your being is to know the truth of the whole.

There is just one quality, one courage – not to be afraid of being ignorant. On that point there can be no compromise, no cheap borrowed knowledge to decorate yourself with as a wise man. That’s enough! Just be pure and natural, and out of that purity, naturalness, ignorance, the quest is bound to born.

Every human being would be a seeker of truth if the society were not interfering with children.

The class of children is the most harmed, oppressed, exploited, distorted class of all classes – and the most helpless. And you are taking advantage of the helplessness of small children. But you are also not responsible. The same has been done to you. It is difficult to find out who was responsible in the beginning. But as long as we can look back, this has been the situation: every generation corrupts the new generation, and anybody who wants to prevent this corruption is condemned as corrupting the youth.

The Death of Socrates

Socrates was condemned for corrupting the youth. and all that he was doing was the simple process of removing borrowed knowledge and helping his disciples to be themselves and then ‘to know thyself’. If anybody has served truth the most sincerely it was Socrates. But he was condemned by the court, by the law, by the people who were in power, for corruption, for corrupting young minds.

Why are they afraid? They know perfectly well that they have no foundation. So if anybody shows the young people that there knowledge is unfounded, that all their answers are bogus because they don’t even have questions, that they are only repeating things parrot – like, but they don’t have any understanding of what they are saying… then anybody who has a little intelligence will be able to understand it immediately.

Is this corruption of the youth?

To bring people to the quest of the the truth – is this corruption?

It seems it is the greatest crime in the world in which – unfortunately – we are living…

Osho: Beyond Psychology